Hey there, Legal Tea Listeners –This is your host, Jenny Rozelle! Today’s episode of Legal Tea is the “cautionary tales” topic. And on these “cautionary tales” episodes of Legal Tea, we normally talk about real-life cases with real-life clients that are things me or my office have worked on -or they are things that I think are generally good things to be aware of, so you don’t turn into a cautionary tale on my Legal Tea podcast one day! Well today, it’s going to be a bit of the latter (and maybe I will throw in some real-life stories, we’ll see where this goes!) and we are going to chat about things to consider and general tips on finding an estate or elder law attorney to help you or your family.
Now, if you didn’t know, after law school and the Bar Exam, we get our law license which grants the power to practice law in any practice area. That means we do not come out of law school with a declared specialty – say, like med school and declaring you’re going to do pediatrics or something. Rather, beyond the law license, we have ethics rules that say when we practice law, we have to do so with competence in the practice area – which is why, say, if someone came to me to help them file for divorce, could I help them? My law license says “yes” but the ethics rules say, “Jenny, you’ve never done that before, so you shouldn’t!” I mention all of this because it’s a bit of a slippery slope – you can imagine some attorneys may dance into areas that they are not incredibly skilled in, which puts the client possibly at risk (and the client may not even know).
So, for today’s episode, I thought it’d be helpful to go over some things to consider when you are looking for an estate or elder law attorney – and maybe I can come up with some real-life stories along the way to exemplify some of these tips and things to consider! So, let’s dive in, shall we?
Up first is “practice areas.” Along the lines of what I just said about lawyers being able to technically do any type of field and practice area, when it comes to dealing with your estate, family, money, etc., I highly, highly recommend that you work with someone that really only does this type of work – rather than someone that does a little bit of a lot of types of practice areas. I genuinely don’t mean anything by this, but when it comes to your family and money (your estate plan), you want to be sure you do the best type of plan – and a more generalist that does not truly the intricacies about estate planning, way beyond just throwing together a simple Will for you. A general attorney can put together a very simple plan, but what if you should be considering more and you don’t even know?
That’s the scary part. That’s the risk, honestly. Sure, doing any type of plan is better than nothing, but if there’s one thing that I hear over and over again … clients say they just want to make things easy for their family. Well, what if something more thorough than just a simple plan … is what would do that. What I can tell you is that attorneys like me usually have a very set process to ensure you are doing the best type of estate plan for you, your family, and your assets. We have a way to extract important information to make sure we know and understand what we’re working with and ultimately, what types of estate planning options should be “on the table” to consider. We quite literally do that day in and day out.
Now, a quick note on elder law – elder law often involves either asset protection planning for the possibility of long-term care down the road and sometimes it involves exploring options on how to legally handle someone that is cognitively impaired and may or may not have estate documents. Now, if you want or need elder law services, it is VITAL to hear me loud and clear on this one – not all estate attorneys do elder law. In fact, a majority of estate attorney do NOT do elder law. So if you need this type of work, you should really look into an elder law or elder care attorney – not just an ol’ estate attorney. This is such an important distinction that I can’t say loud enough.
Alright so the tip here is: Look into an attorney’s practice areas by looking at their website, their social media accounts, etc. to ensure you are find someone that does estate and/or elder law – and really that’s the heavy majority of what they do.
Next up is “bar associations, national organizations, and groups/organizations they belong to.” What does that mean? The best way I know how to describe this is, professionally speaking, who are they hanging out with, involving themselves with, getting information from, etc. I think it’s best to use myself as an example – the groups and organizations I belong to are: National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys, Lawyers with Purpose (a national estate planning organization), my State Bar Association – and specifically, the Trust and Probate as well as the Elder Law “sections” of the Association. What do you notice? Everything is to do with estate and elder law, right? I use these groups to exchange ideas, to strategize, to stay abreast of state and national law changes, to advocate for changes in our rules or laws, etc. etc.
Let’s flip the script – let’s say instead I belonged to all groups and organizations about criminal law or family law – I don’t have any of what I just mentioned about estate and elder law, right? So, maybe the way to describe this tip is to do some digging on the groups and organizations that the attorney is involved in. Sometimes you can find the groups and organizations in the attorney’s bio if they have a thorough bio on their website (and IF they have a website). If they do not have a website or if their bio on the website doesn’t share, just call and ask the question – it may seem weird, but honestly, I can tell you that we have had people call my office and ask if we belong to various organizations – like that National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys. So, while it may feel weird, it’s not – and even if the attorney’s office thinks it’s weird, do you really care? Again, this is your estate, family, and assets we’re talking about – it’s important to make sure you’re working with a qualified attorney.
Next up is “certifications or qualifications” – what I mean by this is there are various certifications attorneys can seek in the estate and elder law space. Are they required? No. Absolutely not. Is it something to consider? Sure. There are a lot of amazing attorneys that have these certifications, there are a lot of amazing attorneys that do not have these certifications. What happens is that to get these certifications, individuals usually have to been in the specific practice of law for a specific period of time (usually like 5 or 10 years, at the LEAST), have to take and pass an exam, etc. So, not only do the individuals have experience in the field, but they’ve passed further testing to be able to call themselves as “certified.”
Now, a few of the well-known and well-respected certifications that you may see in the estate and elder law space are (just to name drop a few): 1) Board-certified Trust and Estate specialist; 2) Fellow of the American College of Trust and Estate Counsel; 3) Certified Elder Law Attorney; and/or 4) American College of Tax Counsel. I think what these certifications exhibit is kind of like what I blabbed about earlier about practice areas – an attorney that dabbles in a handful of different fields is very, very, very likely not going to embark on getting certified – because it’s possible that their depth of understanding of the field would not be enough to pass a tough exam.
The last thing to possibly consider when selecting an estate or elder law attorney is … age. Now, this may surprise you a bit, but hear me out. Do you want to know how many families and clients I meet with that I say, “I did this plan years ago, and I’m pretty sure that attorney is now retired, if not dead.” In my experience, the fields of estate and elder law tend to be more of a relationship than a transaction. So many things change – family setup, family dynamic, assets, health, etc. – that often necessitate changes to the plan.
I think there’s something to be said for age often directly correlates with experience, too. Of course, there’s something to be said for experience, too, but I wouldn’t put as much stock on age as I would experience. You see, I went to law school at night while working full-time during the day. Many of my classmates were doing the same – and in fact, the oldest person in my class was in his 60s. So, when he was done with school and the Bar Exam, he was technically a new attorney – see my point? Just because someone is older does not directly mean they have this tremendous amount of experience.
I’ll never forget … here’s a quick story … many years ago, probably 10 years ago, I was meeting with a client and the husband near the end of the meeting asked, “May I ask how old you are?” Initially, I was caught off guard and thought he was going to be concerned about my limited experience. I told him my age (I think I was in my mid 20s) and he said, “Oh good! Okay, so if life takes its normal course, you’ll be around to help my family with all of this!” There’s something to be said for that – I actually just had to track down a retired attorney a few weeks ago to sign off on an Affidavit because he made an error on a Deed – and signing an Affidavit saying he made the error was going to be A LOT easier than having to clean things up. So … age is worth consideration, too.
Just to quickly recap – the four things I discussed as “tips in selecting an estate or elder law attorney” were: 1) Practice areas (is estate and/or elder law what the attorney does day-in and day-out?); 2) Groups/organizations/associations (where is the attorney “hanging out” in terms of “talking shop” and strategies?); 3) Certifications (do they possess any specialized certifications in the estate and/or elder law space?); and 4) Age (do you care if the attorney is likely not going to be around when you pass away or your family needs help?). I’m sure I am missing a few other tips, but when I was putting this episode together, these are the few things that immediately popped into my head. Nonetheless, I hope it was helpful!
Alrighty, let’s shift to a sneak peak of next week, which we’re circling back to the “current trends” topic where we talk about things that are going on currently that impact my estate and elder law world – or maybe, things that I have stumbled upon on the news or social media that is relevant to this podcast. Well next week, I kept searching for things to chat about on here – and it finally hit me – well it’ll be a bit delayed, but ‘tis the season of back to school time. I frequently missed thing is that it's not a bad idea for college kiddos to get some basic documents in place – just in case something happens to them while at school, while studying abroad, etc. So we’ll chat about “estate planning for college kids” next time, Legal Tea Listeners, so until then, be well and talk soon!
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